High D diatonic chrom?

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triona
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by triona » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:15 pm

jonvoth wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:06 am
Given that the highest (and standard) key is C, ... no chromatics in production higher than C.
The Hohner CX-12 is available in F, E, Eb, D, C, B, Bb, A, G, LC (from high to low).

I.e. 5 keys above C, including D as the usual labeling is suggesting. Yours is apparently different. I shall find out, how Honner’s labeling is to understand, and what the others are like. (I have experienced with my XB-40’es that Hohner uses incoherent labeling sometimes.)

Seydel Saxony Steel and Deluxe Steel is available in solo LE, LF, G, A, Bb, C, D, and in orchestra C and irish G, A, C, D (irish means here, that pressing the slide is lowering the note by a half tone. All Seydel chromatics with steel reeds are available in various special tunings by the customer’s choice with the Seydel Configurator. The choice is only limited by the availability of the requested reeds.

jonvoth wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:06 am
... making a high D chrom involves changing all reeds, and many as much as a minor 3rd. I'm afraid of doing that and wondering if anyone here has done that before I try that.
Oh, I know what you mean. :lol: I have not yet done. But I have a 16-hole Larry Adler (Hohner 280) here lying around, in dismounted state, awaiting this operation since quite a time. :roll: Originally oldstyle nailed. The exchange of the nails against screws is the only thing I have finished up till now. It is not only 64 reeds to retune, but also replace 58 valves. At least those had been worn and need replacement anyway. But I have no use for 2 of it in C, and I like the sound of this fine old Instrument. I think it would fit very fine into Irish, Scottish etc, especially because of the additional low octave.

jonvoth wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:06 am
... involves changing all reeds, and many as much as a minor 3rd.
How do you come upon this? Afaik it is only necessary to rise all reeds by 1 wholetone (i.e. 2 halftones) constantly throughout the total range. Emphasis lying on "all reeds", and all by the same interval, as long as you do not want to change the blow-draw-pattern of the instrument.

(to be continued)
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

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triona
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by triona » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:19 pm

jonvoth wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:06 am
... how Brendan in New Irish Harmonica made a diatonic chromatic in high D. If he turned a standard into that then I will try that.
If you mean a "slide diatonic" with this, he might have used this instrument out of his former production:

Image

http://brendan-power.com/harmonicas-irish.php

This one is discontinued. The picture I took from mine.
But mine is in Low D anyway. Maybe Brendan had some different in use.

It is still available with 12 holes, and not made by Hering any more, but by Easttop instead:
http://brendan-power.com/harmonicas-irish.php

Brendan's famous and awesome "Irish Session Harp" which he told to have used on his CD "New Irish Harmonica" (among others) is discontinued as well. As a replacement Brendan offers his new "Switch-Harp". I did not yet play one of those.

(to be continued)
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

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triona
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by triona » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:22 pm

(last part)

Talking about Slide Diatonics, there is the Seydel Sampler as well. It is a “double diatonic”, comparable to Brendan’s discontinued “Irish Session Harp” (ISH). On both of them the slider switches between two reedplates containing each a full range solo tuned diatonic key over 3 full octaves. Out of stock it is available in C+G, D+A and G+D. The latter is called “the Irish”. It is tuned in G and high D, whilst Brendan’s ISH had been tuned in G and low D. The Seydel Sampler has a slide with spring, in combination with a mechanical slide lock. The ISH had no spring and therefore needed no slide lock.

I removed the slide lock from my Seydel Samplers, because it was prone to lock unwanted and uncontrolled while playing with lively use of the slide. On the other hand, on my ISH I fixed a short loop of a ribbon to the slide, so that I can fix the slide to my thumb. So I can use the slide in the usual manner like with a chromatic, to switch fluently between the two reedplates (= keys) without the missing spring while playing. I prefer the ISH with its low D for the simulation of heavy organ sound, and the Sampler with its spring loaded slide for lively trills and shaking 16th and 32th.

The Seydel Sampler is available as well in custom tuning by the configurator. I play one in D+A mixolydian (i.e. G# lowered to G, practically it is a configurated, inspired by Donald Black). That means, I have the same notes on both of the reedplates. The use of the slider results a jump of a fourth or a fifth, depending on the direction of the switch. I like to use it for celtic tunes as well as for baroque like sounds, like simulation of the organ sound of a Bach toccata or fugue, or lively fifth and fourth cascades of 16th or 32th up and down. :D The mixolydian scale is essential for many celtic tunes, while the fourth and fifth jumps are characteristic for baroque music. The key of D is very common in celtic tunes. And it is counted the “Royal” key in baroque music.


dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

jonvoth
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by jonvoth » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:26 am

Hi Triona, thank you so much for you info and detailed response!

So in my experience, I have several chromatic harps, Suzuki SCX, Hohner 270 & CX12 in C, G, A, E, Eb, F, D and as far as I know "C" is the highest available. I have dozens of diatonic harps in all keys, up to a G higher than the standard C, but no chromatic harps higher than the typical C. I have looked but have not found chromatic harps higher than standard C available.

To make it to a "slide diatonic" I would tune any notes (slider depressed) up a half step to fit in the C scale ( of a C harmonica ).

In Brendan's New Irish Harmonica, "Drunken Landlady-Wind that Shakes-John Stenson's" must have been played on a slide diatonic in high D. Recorded in the mid 1990's, long before he had a website and offered his many instruments for sale.

I was just curios how he developed it. Perhaps by using a standard C chromatic and raising the notes. Each by a whole step, and most of the slide notes by a minor third-somethng I find scary (worried about ruining the reeds) but am willing to try. Just wanted some confirmation.

Thanks!



Jon

jimbo
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by jimbo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:37 am

https://youtu.be/a578smLISBY
On those tunes he plays with a D slide Paddy richer
So it s discontinued but I 99.9% percent sure it s that king of harmonicas on the drunken landlady set!

jimbo
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by jimbo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:03 am

https://youtu.be/R5s7VcNWKC0
At 12min 12
It s a 12 holes chrom but again in Paddy richter slide diatonic
So the main key to sound like this it s to put the Paddy richter layout on a D chrom

jimbo
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by jimbo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:17 am

https://youtu.be/480A7qsJagU
At 2min 06 he plays the song on a chromatix Suzuki so it might be these brand

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Brendan
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by Brendan » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:25 am

Sorry, just saw this thread! I make my high D slide diatonics from C chromatics. On 'New Irish Harmonica' they were Hohner Slide Harps in C tuned up to Paddy Richter Slide Diatonic.

Nat long after making that album I switched to Paddy Solo for Irish music. I've tuned up various 12-hole C chroms to this scale, mostly Suzuki SCX and Hohner CX-12. The main solo-tuned scale starts at hole 5, and the Paddy Richter part is holes 2-4. Hole 1 goes down to the fifth below the tonic.

The reeds will take tuning up the amounts needed - about 4 semitones at the most, I think. In the low octave you need to add weight to the reeds.

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triona
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by triona » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:41 pm

Oh, thank you for this post. This was very inlightening to me.

Brendan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:25 am
The reeds will take tuning up the amounts needed - about 4 semitones at the most, I think. In the low octave you need to add weight to the reeds.
And if I want to tune down Seydel steel reeds for more than some few cents (where a hard metal scratch tool or an electric mini grinder surely will do) - i.e. at least two semitones or maybe to the recommended max - what kind of solder can be recommended to use, and subsequently what kind of flux, and what temperature required min / max? Or is there only laser welding recommended or even necessary? For explanation: I want tune down a Seydel Low Tone LLE to LLD - or maybe even change it into some kind of bagpipe tuning around LLD.


dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

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Brendan
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Re: High D diatonic chrom?

Post by Brendan » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:43 am

Hi Triona,

Sorry, I haven't much experience doing big retuning jobs on Seydels, only harps with brass or phosphor bronze reeds. I suggest contact Bertram for tech advice on steel reeds.

Brendan

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