NEW: Seydel All Minor

Anything apart from the two mainstream default harmonicas (Solo-tuned fully-valved chromatic, and un-valved Richter 10-hole diatonic). Alternate tunings, different construction, new functionality, interesting old designs, wishful-thinking... whatever!
EdvinW
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by EdvinW » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:59 am

triona wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:28 pm
Seems to be plenty of possibilities to experiment with.
The mixolydian scale in first position is only one, but a very interesting variation.

If top and bottom coverplates are interchangeable is a thing that is to try and to prove. But maybe it will not work, depending on the direction of the slides' movement, and on the maximal and minimal distance each slide is able to move, and on the exact position of each slide in relation to the respective reeds which they should affect.
I thought of the mixolydian scale as well! It will be nice to be able to play those mixy tunes with all the chords and feeling of first position :)

I also realised I was wrong above, see my edit. I've been thinking about this since yesterday, but I haven't found really useful application yet for upside down plates on any common tuning. There might be some special tunings though! ;) For instance, I've been playing a variation of PowerChromatic tuning for diatonics, and based on this you could do the following upside-down tuning:

Code: Select all

Tunable reeds: x     x x     x     
Blow:          c#e g a c#e g a c e
               1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Draw:          d f#a b d f#a b d f#
Tunable reeds:     x     x     x   
Lowering 1B and 5B gives a normal PowerChromatic that plays in G, D mixolydian and D major with bendy tonics, while leaving them as they are facilitate many quick tunes in D.
Lowering 6D obviously gets you a minor, and you can adjust which flavour of minor you want with 5B and 1B. One could also lower 8B to get a 'g#' accidental. Some Scandinavian tunes, including one of my favourites, goes in dorian mode with the occasional tritone thrown in, and this setup would let me play this without bends!

I doubt that the above setup has a sufficiently broad use for me personally to order one, especially before I give the idea a try, I just want to point out there might be some things out there :D
@ availability:

Here a remark about Seydel's sales policy for novelties and ideas outside the main stream. This item is a "harmonica of the month"-offer, how Seydel is used to call this.

1. It will only be produced when there are at least 20 orders until the last day of June 2019. (In this case I expect that these will come.) Hence it will not be delivered before the middle of July 2019 at least.
That is strange... According to an email from Seydel my order was dispatched this morning.
Edvin Wedin

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triona
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by triona » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:26 pm

triona wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:28 pm
@ availability:
...
1. It will only be produced when there are at least 20 orders until the last day of June 2019. (In this case I expect that these will come.) Hence it will not be delivered before the middle of July 2019 at least.


*) edit:
This is an error. I talked to Florian once more to resolve my misunderstanding. Exceptionally and different from former "harmonicas of the month" this offer will be dispatched at once, as long as on stock. When sold out, they will produce some more till end of June or July, if there will be more orders than stock.

@ Edvin:

As for your last post, I first must study your layouts and reflections closer, before I give any further statement.

As for the mixolydian scale, I think this is one of the easiest variations. There are only the 7th's to be lowered (e.g. in the scale of A all the G# to G). I first must study all the respective layouts to find out what is easily to realize without any further modifications of the new hardware. The modifications are limited to holes 2, 5 and 8 blow and 3, 6, 7 and 10 draw.

If you want to tune other reeds, you must build a coverplate on your own. This seems to me not so very difficult, on base of a set of standard coverplates to cut the incisions by oneself, and a number of fitting magnets. If there should be possible some more useful variations with other reeds tuneable, we could ask Seydel whether they would sell the magnets as a single part. With some research it would even be possible to find some suppliers on ones own. These magnets (usually neodymium magnets) are standard industrial supply. It just must be known the dimensions and the required magnetic force.


dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

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triona
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by triona » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:32 pm

Lizzy wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:14 am
Triona: I did not expect Seydel would make any reality of this, rather that they both have the tools and opportunity to do it. 8-) I understand that many in most cases concentrate on the ordinary for the bigger mass and not for them few who wants the extraordinay. It would be harder to survive if they did it for the few.

Look at my last answer @ Edvin above. There I explained some ideas how to develop and customize this idea further on by oneself. Obs that we are just the tremendous number of 4 who already are discussing this here. :lol: And this forum is the site where most of the people who are interested in things like this are concentrated - worldwide, maybe besides Slidemeister. In the German harpforum.de - which is much bigger than this one here - this has come to be known a week earlier. And up till now there was not one who barely took notice of it except of me. :roll:

Here we are the avant-garde of unconventionally tuned harmonicas and the use and making of those. :mrgreen: And we should be aware anyway, that especially Seydel is the one of the "big players" in the harmonica world who offers quite a lot of fine stuff to people like us. I know from Seydel's sales management that none of the harmonicas they ever produced and still produce which I love to play most were big sellers. :(

And you also can see that even Brendan as one of the leading specialists in those kind of harmonicas worldwide quite often discontinues some models and items after a quite short time being on the market. We are here within a very small niche of the harmonica market. And our aspirations are high. And our number is small. And our economical resources are limited. And even Brendan's capacities are not unlimited. Any good thing always will take its time.


dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

EdvinW
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by EdvinW » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:15 am

triona wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:26 pm
*) edit:
This is an error. I talked to Florian once more to resolve my misunderstanding. Exceptionally and different from former "harmonicas of the month" this offer will be dispatched at once, as long as on stock. When sold out, they will produce some more till end of June or July, if there will be more orders than stock.
Good news! My plan was to try it and to buy another one if it's good.
@ Edvin:

As for your last post, I first must study your layouts and reflections closer, before I give any further statement.

As for the mixolydian scale, I think this is one of the easiest variations. There are only the 7th's to be lowered (e.g. in the scale of A all the G# to G). I first must study all the respective layouts to find out what is easily to realize without any further modifications of the new hardware. The modifications are limited to holes 2, 5 and 8 blow and 3, 6, 7 and 10 draw.

If you want to tune other reeds, you must build a coverplate on your own.
...
...
I might have been unclear, but the point of my post was not to make a tuning that used some custom made All Minor cover plates, but to show that there could be uses for standard AM plates mounted upside down :) This particular tuning might not be that useful for most people, but since I use it (though all the 'c's are sharp in mine (and it's in A instead of D)) I though it could be nice to be able to switch to a standard Power chromatic tuning. The harp I use is a Session Steel, and if the plates indeed fit I must give this a try!

Another idea, which strikes me just now, is that one could use two top plates or two bottom plates to maybe find some use for some other custom tuning :) No idea what tuning this would be though, that's a topic for future research :D
Edvin Wedin

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triona
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by triona » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:22 am

But did you consider, that if you change bottom to top and vice versa, you will change right and left as well? And that the length of the reeds get shorter from left to right? The incessions in the coverplates seem to have different length, fitting to the length of the respective reed, not to talk about the correct position in relation to the aimed reed.

But we can wait until you will have your harp. Then you can try and will see ... And afterwards we all might be wiser than now. :D


dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

EdvinW
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by EdvinW » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:29 pm

triona wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:22 am
But did you consider, that if you change bottom to top and vice versa, you will change right and left as well? And that the length of the reeds get shorter from left to right? The incessions in the coverplates seem to have different length, fitting to the length of the respective reed, not to talk about the correct position in relation to the aimed reed.

But we can wait until you will have your harp. Then you can try and will see ... And afterwards we all might be wiser than now. :D


dear greetings
triona
I DID consider that left and right will change! ;)

I did NOT consider that the paths for the magnets have are different and have different lengths! I guess that will remain a mystery until it's delivered :)
Edvin Wedin

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triona
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by triona » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:39 pm

Oh yes. We will see. And I must wait some little time more too before I can put an order myself. At the moment my money is down. :(
Some governmental authorized gangsters hacked my bank account. :twisted:


dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

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Brendan
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by Brendan » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:34 am

This is a great idea! Bertram Becher showed it to me about a year ago, great to see Seydel have now released it :-)

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triona
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Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by triona » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:44 am

triona wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:44 am
The only inconvenience I expect from these slides in comparison to a standard harmonica is, that they might disturb my lips's movement along the coverplates when playing fast and with full chords. With this I put the harp relatively deep into my mouth. So the slide knobs possibly might cause a friction to my lips, when they are in the position next to the mouth. I will see, whether this is a severe inconvenience or whether it will be tolerable to me. (see picture)

Image
Yesterday there was a first response on the respective thread at harpforum.de .
The user had one in his hands already and was just criticizing this. Anyway I will try one. But I will not order all 3 at once. This is just one thing I don't like at the Yonberg harps. On these it is the screws which fix together the whole harmonica.

@ Edvin:
Did you already receive yours? Maybe you can have an eye on this and report.


dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

EdvinW
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Location: Sweden

Re: NEW: Seydel All Minor

Post by EdvinW » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:34 am

triona wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:44 am
@ Edvin:
Did you already receive yours? Maybe you can have an eye on this and report.


dear greetings
triona
It should arrive today, or at the latest tomorrow. I'll report, and hopefully make a video. No that I have a place to upload them I have no excuses not to ;)
Edvin Wedin

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