Brendan Power & Alternative Harmonicas Forum

Here's an idea you can test. Could a turbo-slide be used for sax like vibrato on blow notes. Sax vibrato is done by slightly dropping the jaw and returning to the normal embouchure in rapid succession. Doing this creates a very slight change in pitch. I thought that if a turbo slide were adjusted to change the pitch 10-20 Hz that it might create a lovely sax like vibrato on the blow notes. I'd test the idea myself, but I don't have a turbo-slide.

David Pearce

Sorry David, I only just saw this post now...

That's an interesting idea. However, I'd feel it was a waste of the full potential of the Turboslide if that were its only function.

If you could have this micro vibrato effect plus the full semitone lowering effect, that would be ideal. But I don't think it's possible unless you could have two Turboslide units inside your harp, set up differently. That would be a real challenge to achieve in the limited space under the covers!

Instead I suggest half-valving the harmonica (the preferred setup for all my harps). This will give you nice blow note vibrato controlled by your embouchure.

harpdog123 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:28 pm Here's an idea you can test. Could a turbo-slide be used for sax like vibrato on blow notes. Sax vibrato is done by slightly dropping the jaw and returning to the normal embouchure in rapid succession. Doing this creates a very slight change in pitch. I thought that if a turbo slide were adjusted to change the pitch 10-20 Hz that it might create a lovely sax like vibrato on the blow notes. I'd test the idea myself, but I don't have a turbo-slide.

But I have one since new (when I had met Brendan in Klingenthal 4 weeks ago).
Mine is tuned in A - Power Draw. And since I have experimented with it some time, I can confirm: This certainly will do like you hope or expect.

Brendan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:42 am That's an interesting idea. However, I'd feel it was a waste of the full potential of the Turboslide if that were its only function.

In addition to David's idea with the sax I recognized very soon, that the Turboharp ist very much appropriate to emulate the sound of the "singing saw".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_saw

This also reminds me to the sound of the flexatone, which is mostly used as an effect instrument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexatone

And it is comparable with the sound of the theremin as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin

This opens the door to use quite a lot of literature of established sheet music written for the musical saw or for the theremin, at least as an inspiration or a starting point for sound experiments and improvisation. Especially the sound of the singing saw is good to emulate by the possibility of bending whole chords by the magnetic slide.

And one more feature I have found out: I can use the slider of the Turboharp like a whammy bar on an electrical guitar, i.e. a mechanical vibrato system, usually incorrectly named "tremolo" (the same like with the "tremolo" harmonica, see further down). The slider can bend whole chords as well as single notes. This is the same what the whammy bar does to the guitar strings. And the slider can be used musically the same way as a whammy bar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrato_s ... for_guitar


All this I would not consider "a waste of the full potential of the Turboslide". But you are right with, that it is not its only function. It is certainly more than that. All in all, considering single note playing, there are more alternative bendings on blow reeds, up and down.

Indeed this is a speciality of you, which you aim at with many of your alternate tunings since long. And it is something I did not yet incorporate into my playing and practice enough in the past myself. In Klingenthal I just got some inspiration by you to begin to try this more eagerly.

Brendan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:42 am Instead I suggest half-valving the harmonica (the preferred setup for all my harps). This will give you nice blow note vibrato controlled by your embouchure.

Yes, the turbo harp is not inevitabely necessary for all this. Once hooked on this sound by my experiments with the turboharp, I just took some of my traditional bendable diatonics of different tunings and tried some kinds of bending, different types of vibrato and glissando. And it worked as well. It was just to aim diligently at the desired sound, once you have it in the ear and in mind, how it should sound. It is just the idea to try what you have not yet tried so very often in the past.

Btw: Different to you I am not a big friend of valves myself. I often throw them out altogether, if I get too much angry about them sticking. According to my experience valves are not inevitably necessary on most harmonicas in many cases either for good performance. Maybe this is a matter of subjective perception and opinion, maybe even depending on one's personal embouchure and style of playing.


And even so called "tremolo" harmonicas (*) can produce this effect to some degree. And this is working despite of those tremolo harmonicas design related are not capable to bend at all.

*) Btw, "Tremolo" harmonica actually is not a very precise but rather an incorrect name for those harmonicas. It means harmonicas with 2 reeds for each note simultaneously played, which are slightly detuned against each other by some cents. Thus they are beating against each other. In English I could not find another word for this type of harmonica than "tremolo". It is used in other languages too. But there are some more correct words like "Schwebton" in German or "darrton" in Swedish.

Brendan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:42 am If you could have this micro vibrato effect plus the full semitone lowering effect, that would be ideal. But I don't think it's possible unless you could have two Turboslide units inside your harp, set up differently. That would be a real challenge to achieve in the limited space under the covers!

This seems to me a bold new idea at its own, practically another matter altogether.
Do you mean a second magnetic slide on the lower reedpate - i.e. the draw notes - as well?


dear greetings
triona

Thanks for your comments Triona.

You're not alone in disliking valves: probably most diatonic players would agree!

I meant two Turboslides under the top coverplate: one with magnets lower, for semitone blow bends, and one with magnets set higher for blow vibrato only. But it's just a hypothetical idea; fitting both in would be impractical, I think.

As for a Turboslide on the draw side: since you can already bend the draw notes for bends and vibrato, it doesn't seem necessary.

Also it would be tricky to fit, needing a completely different magnet holding bar to the current one, which Jim Antaki is unlikely to design.

There's the extra issue that the magnets would be lifting the reeds out of the slots. The blow Turboslide bends them up into the slots.

For these reasons I can't see a draw Turboslide coming anytime soon... But if you decide to do some experiments on your own, let us know how it goes

Maybe

Actually I agree on you with everything you wrote about further development of the Turboslide. It was just a question for I did not understand what you meant with the second magnetic bar. I could not imagine how it should work. The Turboslide harmonica is good as it is. And it is an extreme niche product anyway.

The essence of my post is: I use it as it is and enjoy to experiment with its options in the described way. It is kind of a gimmick, nice to have, but not essentially to harmonica playing anyway. And as an answer to David's question: It certainly can do what he was looking for and even more like that. And it will sound nice. But I am sure that he can do this with approptiate traditional harmonicas as well. It is just to try, find out and practice.


dear greetings
triona

Re. the Turboslide, you wrote:

"It is kind of a gimmick, nice to have, but not essentially to harmonica playing anyway."

Honestly Triona, I disagree! Certainly for its INTENDED use of lowering the blow notes for chromatic playing, I find it unsatisfactory. The 'magnet blow bends sound quite metallic, and their pitch is not really stable. Also you can't easily play into a pre-bent Turboslide note from below, as the lowered blow reed is prone to blanking out.

However, the UNINTENDED side-effect of these magnet blow bends is that you can optionally lower your DRAW bends by an extra semitone. Personally, I love this! It was not at all in Jim Antaki's mind when he invented the Turboslide, but to me it's easily the best thing about it. I like it so much that I'm going to make a whole new batch of diatonics for my own playing from Seydel Sessions with Turboslides...

Demonstrating this cool side effect of the Turboslide was one of the main topics of my workshop in Klingenthal. The other students got a dose of it every day but, as you arrived later on, maybe you didn't learn about it - I can't remember. If you haven't tried these deeper draw bends Triona, give them a go - I think you'll like them

Here's a video demonstrating this effect that you might find helpful:
https://youtu.be/2vdm9_RmFnU

The other useful unintended side effect of the Turboslide is that, on unvalved harps, it makes overblows easier when pressed in. The small magnets lift the blow reeds up in the slots and thus reduce air loss through them. This makes the overblows (which come from the draw reeds) easier to get, and sound louder and more pure.

It's a great little invention from Jim Anataki! Even in the intended use it's quite fun, but the best aspects of the Turboslide are ones he never thought of. A happy accident - similar to the way Richter Tuning works so well for playing the Blues in 2nd Position.

... and a new song on my repertoire:
"The Games People Play" by Joe South in 1968, including the original sound of the electrical sitar.

... and "Norwegian Wood" by The Beatles too, which I guess featuring a real acoustic sitar.

I think I must try on some Indian Ragas ...


liebe grüße
triona

See also here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glissando

For those who can read it, the German wiki shows more content:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glissando

There are even more Instruments which can be tried to emulate with the Turboslide, which can be added to the already known lists.

The next thing which I want to try: "Gloria In Excelsis Deo" and other vocal figures and effects. I will report.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melisma
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melisma (including sheet of "Gloria")
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloratura


dear greetings
triona