Trochilus tunings for bluegrass, fiddle tunes

[mozharp]

What alternative tunings have folks experimented with using the richter Trochilus for bluesy bluegrass and fiddle tunes?

I retuned hole 2 draw slide in down a half step and blow 3 slide in up a half step. On a C harp draw 2 slide in becomes an F#, and blow 3 slide in becomes an A. I get all the notes of the major scale in cross harp position, while retaining all the classic cross harp “train” riffs and such. I lose one note, G#, and pick up two more useful notes, F# and A. (You can still hit those notes with bending either way but for fast tunes it’s helpful to be able to hit those notes dead on pitch easily.)

It’s an easy retune and fun to play. But there are so many possibilities. I could see sacrificing some chromaticism for juicier bends. For example, on a C harp tuning the blow slide in F naturals down to an E (or lower) to allow for juicer bends of the F#. Then again I could half valve that hole.

I could go hog wild and tune for more chords, for example it’s be cool to hit parts of the V chord as bendable double stops, for example on a C harp tuning the draw slide in chord to a dominant D7 chord and tuning the blow slide in chord to a C chord for bendability of the draw slide in notes. You’d lose a bunch of chromatic notes, but it’d be like having a melody maker and a richter tuned harp available with the flick of a button.

So many possibilities! What have you all experimented with?

[Arnold]

I play mostly English session tunes in first position on a diatonic harmonica. I’m considering getting a G Trochilus (richter tuned), and retuning the first 3 holes, slide in blow; A, C#, E, and slide in draw; C, E, G. This fills the gaps in the G and D major scales lower octave, and also acts as a chord harmonica on holes 1 to 3, giving the primary chords for both of those keys. Keeping the chromaticism from F#4 means I have all the same notes as a standard D/G diatonic button accordion (melodeon).

I’m hoping the Trochilus might be a bit louder than my Lee Oskar, which gets a little drowned out, especially by boxes…

[triona]

I’m hoping the Trochilus might be a bit louder than my Lee Oskar, which gets a little drowned out, especially by boxes…

If you are looking for a very loud harmonica, I can recommend the Hohner CX-12. It is a standard chromatic with a halftone-up-slider and comes in 10 different keys from low C to C. The plastic housing ist opened and the comb-reedplates-unit is removed and refixed in a few seconds without any tools for fast and easy maintainance. I can keep up with brass bands, martin's trumpet (schalmei) bands and even some bagpipes and in bigger sessions with lots of accordions or drums with this.


dear greetings
triona

[Arnold]

Thanks Triona,

Yes, it sounds like the CX-12 in G might be the way to go if I decide to go for a full-blown chromatic (I’m a fan of the G6 alternative layout). G is certainly the base key for me in this context... However, the tongue block approach including some chords has kind of become my style, and solo tuning messes this up somewhat… The layout I propose would allow me to continue to play in that style on G (but gaining the missing low E note) but also to play using single notes in D, A and related modes…

[triona]

Yes, it sounds like the CX-12 in G might be the way to go if I decide to go for a full-blown chromatic ... However, the tongue block approach including some chords has kind of become my style, and solo tuning messes this up somewhat… The layout I propose would allow me to continue to play in that style on G (but gaining the missing low E note) but also to play using single notes in D, A and related modes…

Then just retune it like you want.

Btw: I play the standard chromatic with solo tuning mainly with tongue block as well - basically I use it just like a diatonic, with the slide mainly as a tool for trills, shakes, cuts, rolls and other embellishments or for slapping and shredding. It is true, there are not as many full chords available. That enforces more tongue block splits. But in third position minor (that is Am with a standard G tuned chromatic e.g.) the main chord is easy. And it has other properties for polyphonic playing on its own, like e.g. octave splits on any note, same blowing pattern in all octaves and others.

But if you prefer more - retune it. For the best tuning ask others here. There are some people here who know much more about this than me. Stuff like that is one of the main subjects of this forum. I am sure there has already been writen about this here anywhere.

... a full-blown chromatic (I’m a fan of the G6 alternative layout). G is certainly the base key for me in this context ...

What is this like? Could you show it here? Maybe this is something for me too?


Coming back to your question about retuning a standard Richter tuned Trochilus:
For fiddle tunes the Moscovitz tuning is a nice variation of the Paddy Richter tuning. It does not request too many reeds to retune. I already had mentioned it in my first answer to your introduction:
viewtopic.php?p=4546#p4546

Seydel has it as a custom tuned called "fiddle tuning" in D.
https://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel ... TaxModel=1


And another fine harmonica for fiddle tunes is the full chromatic slideless Tombo No.1577 "Violin Scale" with typical asian layout, containing lots of redundant notes. It is a pity that it has been discontinued recently. But I think it is still available antiquarianly - be it new old stock or second-hand. The Tombo S-50 is similar. But it's range is not as wide as the #1577's and it has a funny step between the octaves.


dear greetings
triona

[Arnold]

There are many options of course, I’ve been through a few of them over the years!.. Keeping to the topic of the thread though, I feel that the Trochilus tuning I proposed in the original reply would work nicely. G Richter is my natural home for this kind of music… Paddy Richter doesn’t work for me, although I do have a harp with hole 2 draw tuned up instead (a bit like Asian tremolo tuning)

G6 tuning on a G chrom is tuning the blow notes to GBDEGBDE… rather than GBDGGBDG… This arguably smooths out the transition from octave to octave, and gives more options for ornamentation. Interestingly, the Trochilus comes with C6 solo tuning as an option from the factory (CEGA blow notes) but not G6 solo tuning.

[triona]

Thanks.
I must think about this. Maybe I will retune a redundant old harmonica to a *6 for a try.
I also have a so called "Richter tuned chromatic". I did not examine yet what notes exactly are on it. It is a configurated from Seydel someone gave me one day a long time ago.


dear greetings
triona

[mozharp]

Thanks for the replies!

Arnold that's a logical tuning for the first three holes. It suggests some variations to my tuning that I could try.

I'm having fun with my tuning, but I'm making a few tweaks to make fast scale-wise fiddle tune licks a little less fiddly with the slide. I've got two C Trochilus harmonicas that I've blu-tacked into submission, to compare and contrast tunings.

Once I settle in on a tuning (or two) that I like I may use solder. It's annoying when I accidentally knock some blu-tac out of position while working on a harp! I've gotten pretty proficient at the blu-tac, though. It's great while experimenting. Don't like a change, just take it off. (I actually use another brand that was available at my hardware store.) I'll share once I settle into something, but basically, I'm striking a compromise between chromaticism and fluid diatonic playing.

It's fun. The Trochilus is amazing. Triona, the CX-12, is a great harmonica and very loud for a chromatic. But the Trochilus is even louder. I don't know how they do it, but it's almost as loud and airtight as a regular diatonic. It's inexpensive also.

Steve

[Arnold]

Hi Steve,

Good to know that the Trochilus might just cut it in the session environment (although I may be asking a bit much to match the Castagnari boxes!..)

Yes, similarly I’m looking for a diatonic with chromatic features, to be able to play well with single notes in other keys but come back to tune/accompaniment style in good old key of G (the most common English session key)

The five notes I would need to retune upwards by as much as a whole tone. I have done this previously on a Lee Oskar, hole 2 D to E, which involved filing the raised brass rectangle on the end 1/4 of the reed down to about the level of the rest of the reed. It worked well, but I am a little nervous about this operation on a new and more expensive harp!.. Do the Trochilus reeds have a similar raised section to assist in filing?.. Is there a particular file or tool that you have found to work well?..

Thanks,

Ed

[mozharp]

Hi Ed,

Yes the lower pitched reeds on the Trochilus have that raised bit of metal at the free end, similar in size to the same reeds on other diatonic harmonicas.

I’ve only tuned two reeds sharp and only a half step. I’m not the best person to ask about tuning techniques. FWIW I used a low powered rotary grinder. But others on the forum will have more knowledgeable advice there.

The Trochilus is reasonably loud but I can’t promise that you’ll hold your own with the boxes, especially on a low G!

Have fun!

Steve